October 10, 2025 | 19:54
Alex: Thanks for having me.
Dani: Excellent. So I'm gonna jump right into a trust question the central themes this podcast of course is trust so let's talk about it. Could you both frame up your key takeaway on why trust is a competitive advantage for insurers.
Kris: Trust is an instance of what insurance actually is or why they're calling it what it is. The infrastructure to help new technologies, new industries move faster, take more risks. And as part of taking that risk, we need to have better ways that we can build trust, the two underwriters that we didn't know before, and so trust is such an important part of the foundation of insurance, and how can we build more trust? It's from insurers and policy holders that are going in and taking on new risks, and trust and ability to trust that the insurer will be there. It's an argument also to be true a trust that you are not dealing with fraudulent exploitation of the industry. So it is such a key part of it. A lot of people say that their rights usually are very much impacted by catastrophes and so they trust that the industry is there for them when they need them. There's so many angles that that word plays a big part of what insurance is about.
Dani: Absolutely. Alex?
Alex: I think he said it better than I could. So I'll just take that and progress it to the next element, which I think is perfectly said, is then you have that dynamic and now you're left with trusting everyone or trusting no one or picking someplace in between. And that's where We all exist right you don't want to blindly trust every claim as it comes through and pay it you also don't want to pay no claims so you have a benchmark. That's a trade-off. So we're at a moment right now where you have a decision with trust being so fundamental not only as he mentioned externally to the market internally and You have this trade-off which is leading to a compromise which will simply break us. It'll break relationships, it will break trust, things will break down. And so this is that moment where we can step back and say, how can we lead with trust and have a compromise free approach to reestablishing? And I think what was really interesting we talked about on stage was then that dynamic how it unfolds as much as technology. But what I really love that we talked a lot about is actually the people that have to assume risk to implement it, test it, try it, develop it, implement it, and then deploy it. And then the actions that happen within the organization, the external and internal stakeholders. I think that it's really ironic we're talking about trust, which is the coin of the realm, how it's driven by the need for innovation and technology going back to humans again. That to me is the most interesting aspect of what we're really discussing today more broadly in the market.
Dani: So with that in mind, I mean, we've established that trust that must as critical be established, why. Seems like there's a trust gap, though, in insurance. For many different reasons, the system may be not working the way that it should be in a new age of things, legacy systems, things like that, consumer trust waning, for example, and then an opportunity for how insurers can better trust their customers. So there's a lot, but with that is money being left on the table and if so you know what that looks like and what can we do to change that?
Kris: Yeah I think I think there's just definitely the opportunity left there for sure to take on that potentially segments of the industry clients that they couldn't have done in the past through use of some of these technologies that will help them understand the customer better and fill that trust that would allow them to underwrite risks that we haven't seen before and go into areas that that's not good so I do think that there's that's really what what what I see a lot of new technologies coming in this thing out broadening the scope of what insurance we cover and where insurance can play a role so definitely say that.
Alex: So Imagine this is the recipe. Consumer expectations are ever increasing. Because they have in their own lives technologies, they trust to do what it says they do, social media, transact, how we all communicate and live our lives. We trust this technology to do it. The expectation of how that technology behaves for me to consume for something I pay for, the expectation is wildly growing every single month. Then you come back to this industry. So with against the backdrop of that You have an industry that's being attacked on every surface by professional fraudsters opportunistic fraudsters all elements Risk that's changing the market with climate You know all these things it outside of their control is also changing faster than ever So they were coming at Rising expectations fast -mover changing in the world market volatility The price the risk that they were taking in pricing even a quarter ago is changing and no one can predict it because data's trailing indicator of future performance and so they're stuck in this terrible position and then it's easy to run towards fear and zero trust to Or could this be an opportunity to reaffirm how to use trust technology with trusted workforce to a trusted end user to build that bridge and solve that gap. That's where we're at. That is the moment where we're at. We're going to see how the market reacts.
Dani: And that leads me to another question. So if we put that into practice, like leveraging trust in the context of the insurance life cycle, what if insurers had a way to more confidently trust that information that they're getting from customers? Like Whether at point of application renewals, you know when they submit a claim, how would that impact processes people business like what what could things look like instead?
Alex: I think the It could look the way in which we're used to behaving with technology on through some of the leading technology providers on the planet And you think about what Apple and Google and you think about how they think about the customer experience first And we're seeing that a lot more especially over the past couple years the digital journey, what's the experience like to solve this plan. So I think the intent and the action behind the intent is moving in that direction. It's just not moving fast enough, right. And it's not outpacing the volatility outside their control. And it's not a piece of the fraudsters attacking them. And so I think there's this acknowledgement that we don't move as fast and we can't move as fast as an industry. But what can we do? And how do we bridge that? And I think it starts with communication strategy, everything you read about in marketing for insurance carers, you know, and we're there for you. And like when you, when, when you call will answer, how many professional customer service support people exist in insurance companies? No one, it's a claims agent. So the first thing They're getting your claim to pay you to do their job and they do a great job, but it's hard. And now you're getting shook down because they think they're fraudsters. The exact opposite of what the market sees, which is when I call you pay. Hurricane Milton just happened. My roof is off. My family lives in a travel lodge. I need money. Pay me. I pay you every month. Against the backdrop of maybe half of those cranes are actually fraudulent. That's the tension. So I think there's this combination of what they're telling the market through sophisticated marketing that has to align with some reality. There has to be some empathy from the market to understand that when fraud happens their premiums rise And therefore, it's in their best interest to go through a couple extra steps because fraud is killing them too. And that's where people have to meet in the middle and understand how we can bridge this. This is not going to happen as fast as the rise of any of the technology companies, but there's a lot to be learned in that marketing strategy tied to how they deliver it. And then to outreach into the consumer market, which is really tough to do.
Dani: It's an interesting comment just to add to that Kris before for a year from you. We've heard a lot today about, you know, folks saying fundamentally, consumers might not actually understand how insurance quirks in some capacity, which is why you have this echo chamber, sometimes, a negativity. And then the other thing is absolutely, there's a requirement for the narrative to change from insurers. So instead of being known for a catchy jingle, for example, like to tell more of those stories, like the empathetic stories where they have helped.
Alex: Imagine if you were to say, you know what, I'm going to lose market share, and I'm going to onboard only people that I feel are trustworthy people. Like, pick any population, it doesn't matter, I'm just saying like, hey, we think that teachers are a trustworthy population, and I'm just going to be the insurance company of all teachers. We're USAA for the military, whatever the case may be. There's a lot of trusted people in communities, and this has nothing to do with race, gender, culture. I'm talking about just pockets of people you feel are at better risk. And you say, look, part of this process, we're going to start there, and we're not going to grow as much because we're going to have this trusted population. Now that you think about it, wait a second, there's new populations coming in who have no data behind them. Maybe they're an immigrant population. They deserve to get under ready, too. You say, OK, you know what? I should extend trust to you. Would you mind watching this two minute video on how insurance works? And one day you'll get a claim, and we're going to ask you questions, and we may not be able to pay you a day, but the expectation is that we'll pay you in two weeks, here's the process. And they have to watch it and say, I understand. And now they're educated. You can write the risk into this new population of people who should be trusted. And that's an exchange. And it's harder, and they may lose that person to go down the street to get it when that person is going through that terrible experience and says, this is awful. But who's going to be the first to do that? Because they're going to lose in the short term. And that's where trust becomes an extension of leadership taking risks. You gotta get it further on the risk curve and do some things that you know of working in the past and put into a business model that forces some of these two things to come together. That's the only way it's gonna work.
Kris: Yeah, the education piece is so, either you're talking out there is like, it's not just what technologies can we implement in order to enhance trust and then move faster, but it's also how, what are we as an industry doing to educate all the shareholders of why are we I think these technologies it's actually to improve trust but it's also that I just have communication is something you can't really do. So yeah and then it's kind of like why we want to put on this conference it's like increasing the amount of communication. I think in times of change I think you need to have more conversations that we find also two -way conversations. - So I would get downed. - So, if you're hearing from boys or olders, what are their concerns with some of these new technologies that we implemented and addressing those to the elite? That is what I very often encourage insurers to do is like be vocal about what you're. I came to this technology quite a bit. We said the same humorism we see a bit in terms of how people think the workforce of saying, how would you know, if these are my jobs, my jobs can be lost now and so on. I think given insurance, maybe not enough out of the best reputation in the past, the guardrails do cut for insurers. In trust they send new technologists coming up. They don't necessarily say, Oh, these things are actually here to you know or or yeah, mitigate the risk rather just covering the risk. So I think that given that it is more important than ever to communicate that's out as an industry.
Alex: I want to pull the thread that could get so important. We talked about education, communication, convening people to learn, discuss, collaborate. I think that's fundamental. I'll add one other thing, which is Extending it to the incentives of the folks that have to leave this place and do something about, and Culture creating a winning culture early performance is something that needs to be done. But also, aligning the incentives of the people that have to do the hard work .We talked about blue -collar mindset in industry when you're building with empathy and you're also having empathy people doing the hard work Imagine being on the SIU team imagine being the claim team in the junior claims person, and you're being told, hey, there's this tool called Clearspeed come in, the C -suite likes it, start using it. And they're going, what is this? And how do I use it? And they don't ask me, and how will it help me do my job? And so what we're learning as a company, it's really important, is we'll come in and sit by the end users and say, how do you do your job now? Here's how this could help. And they go, actually, I don't like pressing button C. We do this a lot in the military. You get a hand of software or hardware, and you just put it on the shelf or you're not using it to its great capacity because no one took the time to educate you and then no one aligned with our incentives. Hey carrier claims VP Your people will be rewarded with whatever incentive, you know, right to to to enact this thing and watch what change happens When you tell people that some bonus or even a day off We're even an hour off just for any recognition of you innovating in a tough market, doesn't need to be financially based. We'll take what you talked about, so education, communication, convening, tied to actually putting it in motion at that brass tax level. That's where this could get lost. The vision up front being foresighted, and then the lack of trust inside the teams having to do the work.
Danni: That's a critical aspect of, let's say, technology innovation that I think, you know, It's often talked about as just the big high-level idea, but when you think about implementation, think about execution, you do have to think about the end users and bringing all of those people along creates also a different sense of purpose and to your point incentive going forward. So, and maybe this is a good lead-in to our last question because we're talking about the real talk here, so this is the opportunity. If there's one thing you would want leaders listening to think about or to know or to start doing, what would that be?
Alex: For me it has to do with a look in the mirror to how do the people that I lead tied to the objectives I want them to achieve, I want us to achieve. So inverting the hierarchical mindset to a flat or even an inverted thought process. So you're coming at the problem by saying I want to inject trust into my people first, so we're horizontally aligned, we're vertically aligned up to the decision-makers, and they feel a part of the plan because something magic happens when you tell someone, you know, going back to communication, whether it's your partner personally or business relationship or friends. When you set expectations of what you're going to do and you do it, magic happens. And if you fall short, as long as you're communicating any risk, people will usually be okay with that because you're communicating and you're transparent and you're doing the best you can to get there. So my message would just be, as all this technology comes, you have a choice, start with your people, enable a culture that will adopt it, incentivize them to put it into motion, and then lead. Don't be a coward. The market, and this goes for the government, this goes for commercial enterprise. It is littered with cowards. Silicon Valley has lost its imagination so we now only have the benefit of capital providers. We have the imagination to back new companies that should be doing great things. They're building drone delivery, pizza app, technology and other stuff that just will not change our lives and will drive their personal incentive. So we have a lack of imaginative capital tied to cowardly implementers, and a market that's afraid. This is the recipe for disaster. So get some courage and get your job done.
Dani: Thank you, Alex. Kris?
Kris: It ties back to communication. There was something I advise so many of the tech companies that are here in these, I want to hear, people are craving to Real stories of how do you have game into this at what actually came from this? And I think it's that it's it's bearing to go deep questioning the value proposition of your thought and it's something we started doing as an Organization but this conference also throughout the last years is having calls. I've had calls with attendees in the conference of the past weeks and asked them, okay, some of the people you met last year, tell me about those experiences. What actually came of that conversation? And you end up coming with some stories that are so powerful for the rest of the organization. So they trust the product, trust what we're doing. And also for other customers, being able to talk with new technologies coming to come and it's like a country conference. So long. This is what has happened. I think it's so used by We've ended up in this big This fear of talking about AI People are longing for, Tell me about some really good news case here But yes, I should speak to you with some And then inquires about this where I was asking asking, but what do you want to see from the people, the vendors, so the tech companies that are looking to meet with them? And then you're all saying, I want to see here, what are my peers up to? That's what I want to see, I want to see the results. So I believe in, like, to say to leaders, like, dare to go deep and question your value proposition. And actually see, what did that your product do for your customer. And when you see that, shout it to everyone, shout it to everyone in the station, because that's gonna build trust in your team. - First of all to go out and implement this and be confident that this is working and trust for your customers, that you are there, you're there. And in some way also, it just reinforces the trust that's already there with existing characters of yours, that you are there and you're actually asking them, "Hey, this part you said that we have, like, let's talk about the sustainability of it and so on." That's what I would say.
Dani: So for all those listening, Chris and Alex, they want us to get a little uncomfortable. Look in the mirror, question the value prop, which I think is absolutely true. And as an industry, as a whole, I mean, not really resting on your laurels of what you think is working. Don't be a coward. Really, really take a look at what can be done. Go to the end user level. Think about the entire culture and the entire journey. Also think about outcomes, not just big shiny things either. And really think about the incentives to change. And then get going. So you heard it here, folks. Those are the marching orders for the next little while here. Chris, Alex, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciated, really appreciated your perspectives as well. Thank you.
Alex & Kris: Thank you very much.